Bible Discussion: The Rapture: Pre-millenial or Post-millenial ?
Viewing End time Bible Prophecy: Which one does the Bible really teach?
Revelation 20:1-7
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while".
"The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a* thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." (NKJV)
"Premillenialism"
“Pre-millennialism is the belief that Jesus Christ will return at the “Revelation” (Revelation 20:1-7) to physically set up his earthly kingdom during the millennium (1000 year reign of Jesus Christ).
A "Pre-millennialist" believes that Jesus will return to this earth literally and in bodily form and this will mark the beginning of that age. They believe that his physical presence here establishes the fact that he will be sole ruler in this earthly kingdom at this time and will reign for a period of a thousand years. During the 1000 years in which Jesus reigns, all of the covenants He established with Israel will be literally fulfilled. After a thousand years, Jesus will then give up reign and give this kingdom to God the Father, merging this kingdom with His eternal kingdom
Many people believe that "pre-millennialist" base their belief solely on Revelation 20:1-7, the "Apocalypse", but "careful examination" of the scriptures will show that even the "Old Testaments Prophets" spoke of a "coming age" when there would be universal peace and righteousness, thus “pre-millennialism" predates Revelation 20.
"Jewish tradition" says there is the belief that when God rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:1-3, that this ”sabbatic” rest was an “earmark” to a future period of rest period called a millennium. It is their belief that the passage in Revelation 20: supports their belief. In Acts 1:6, the disciples asked Jesus when would the kingdom to Israel. Jesus responded and told them that it wasn’t for them to know the times or the seasons (that is, when the kingdom would be set up) Jesus did not dissuade them from believing that an earthly kingdom would be set up. He simply told them that is wasn’t for them to know the time or the season. But in Matthew chapter 24, Jesus told them and countless others the conditions and events that were to take place culminating with the “Son of Man” (Jesus himself) coming from out of the clouds bringing judgment and establishing his kingdom here on earth.
“Post-millennialism”
"Post-millenialism" is the belief that Jesus will return after the millennium. This view is based upon the "supposition" that the gospel will be preached to the extent that the whole world will be “christianized” and brought into submission to the teachings of the Gospel, then Jesus will return to earth, a general judgment will follow and the kingdom then will be established here.
The "post-millennialist" believe that the kingdom is a "spiritual kingdom" and base their premise when Jesus said: "My kingdom was not of this world, but was in the hearts of men". The Apostolic Church has been credited with introducing the doctrinal belief in "post-millennialism". Prior to 250 A.D., one of their church fathers named "Origen" conceived the idea that the "words of scripture were simply the “door” that opened the path to the real spiritual truth". At this point, he began to "allegorize" and put a "spiritual spin" on scripture.
Origen ultimately founding the School of Allegorizing and Spiritualizing Interpreters of Scripture. Over a period of time the Pentecostal church bought into this new philosophy and from that point ceased looking for the return of the Lord to establish His earthly kingdom. By the time of Constantine, around the 4th Century, there was a “marriage” of church and state and the belief that the Roman Empire and the Papal church in particular was the “anti-Christ”.
Constantine himself was accused by many of being the “anti-Christ, “ which didn’t set to well with the Roman Empire. Subsequently, after an unsuccessful attempt to delete the Book of Revelation from the canon of scriptures, the empire confiscated the Bible and locked it up from the people and from that time the bible became a “sealed” book and it changed the face of Christendom. This" historic period" became known as the beginning of "the Dark Ages".
The “post-millennialist” believe that the kingdom Jesus spoke of establishing was of a “spiritual nature" and not a “physical” one. This is one of the "primary" reasons why you hear many "evangelical churches of today" talk about and promote “kingdom” building , reasoning that "it is the "church’s responsibility" to usher in the kingdom of God through the preaching the “kingdom” of God is at hand and it’s through the church".
What is your "view" of Prophecy in this issue?
Let me give mine. Personally, "I believe in the “pre-millennial” view of prophecy. I don't believe that Jesus ever placed upon the church (either in the inception of her or the continuing saga of her) the responsibility of establishing the "Kingdom of God" on earth THROUGH "SO-CALLED "KINGDOM BUILDING" , rather, I believe it is our responsibility "to evangelize the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ", preaching salvation to anyone who will believe the message, as well as prepare ourselves for the rapture and second coming of Jesus Christ, not the coming of the ‘earthly” kingdom Jesus spoke about. The reason is your salvation is the “ticket” into the future kingdom. I believe once the believer is “sealed” by the Holy Ghost” because that believer confessed verbally the Lord Jesus and believed that Jesus was raised from the dead for our redemption, "that believer" already possesses "spiritually" the" Kingdom of God" (in principle, and biblical precepts) in their heart.
In Matthew 6:10 and Luke 11:2, Jesus taught us to pray for the kingdom to come as well as God’s will be done on earth and in heaven. These 2 passages clearly teach that the kingdom is a literal and physical kingdom and God will through Jesus establish it after the 7-year tribulation period.
Second, Jesus in John chapter 14 told us that he was going away to prepare a “place” (physical not spiritual) for us and one day will come back to receive us so we will be where he is for eternity. It doesn’t make sense for Jesus to go away to prepare a place for us if “that place” wasn’t physical and literal. God is a spirit and the creator of all things literally and physically. That includes all that we see and all in the spirit world that we don’t. I believe that Jesus will physically establish his kingdom here on earth during the millennium.
Pre-millenialist fall into 3 “schools of interpretation: “Preterists”, “Historical”, and “Futurists”. I believe in the “futurist” view of the Apocalypse, which takes the position that Revelation chapters 1 through 3 is both a "panoramic and historic view" of the spiritual decline of the Church Age through the seven churches in Asia Minor. From that point, from Revelation chapter 4 to the end of the book is future and has not been fulfilled as of yet. This means the kingdom that Jesus will establish here on earth is literal, physical, and not spiritual.
Viewing End time Bible Prophecy: Which one does the Bible really teach?
Revelation 20:1-7
"Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while".
"The Saints Reign with Christ 1000 Years
"And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a* thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years." (NKJV)
"Premillenialism"
“Pre-millennialism is the belief that Jesus Christ will return at the “Revelation” (Revelation 20:1-7) to physically set up his earthly kingdom during the millennium (1000 year reign of Jesus Christ).
A "Pre-millennialist" believes that Jesus will return to this earth literally and in bodily form and this will mark the beginning of that age. They believe that his physical presence here establishes the fact that he will be sole ruler in this earthly kingdom at this time and will reign for a period of a thousand years. During the 1000 years in which Jesus reigns, all of the covenants He established with Israel will be literally fulfilled. After a thousand years, Jesus will then give up reign and give this kingdom to God the Father, merging this kingdom with His eternal kingdom
Many people believe that "pre-millennialist" base their belief solely on Revelation 20:1-7, the "Apocalypse", but "careful examination" of the scriptures will show that even the "Old Testaments Prophets" spoke of a "coming age" when there would be universal peace and righteousness, thus “pre-millennialism" predates Revelation 20.
"Jewish tradition" says there is the belief that when God rested on the seventh day in Genesis 2:1-3, that this ”sabbatic” rest was an “earmark” to a future period of rest period called a millennium. It is their belief that the passage in Revelation 20: supports their belief. In Acts 1:6, the disciples asked Jesus when would the kingdom to Israel. Jesus responded and told them that it wasn’t for them to know the times or the seasons (that is, when the kingdom would be set up) Jesus did not dissuade them from believing that an earthly kingdom would be set up. He simply told them that is wasn’t for them to know the time or the season. But in Matthew chapter 24, Jesus told them and countless others the conditions and events that were to take place culminating with the “Son of Man” (Jesus himself) coming from out of the clouds bringing judgment and establishing his kingdom here on earth.
“Post-millennialism”
"Post-millenialism" is the belief that Jesus will return after the millennium. This view is based upon the "supposition" that the gospel will be preached to the extent that the whole world will be “christianized” and brought into submission to the teachings of the Gospel, then Jesus will return to earth, a general judgment will follow and the kingdom then will be established here.
The "post-millennialist" believe that the kingdom is a "spiritual kingdom" and base their premise when Jesus said: "My kingdom was not of this world, but was in the hearts of men". The Apostolic Church has been credited with introducing the doctrinal belief in "post-millennialism". Prior to 250 A.D., one of their church fathers named "Origen" conceived the idea that the "words of scripture were simply the “door” that opened the path to the real spiritual truth". At this point, he began to "allegorize" and put a "spiritual spin" on scripture.
Origen ultimately founding the School of Allegorizing and Spiritualizing Interpreters of Scripture. Over a period of time the Pentecostal church bought into this new philosophy and from that point ceased looking for the return of the Lord to establish His earthly kingdom. By the time of Constantine, around the 4th Century, there was a “marriage” of church and state and the belief that the Roman Empire and the Papal church in particular was the “anti-Christ”.
Constantine himself was accused by many of being the “anti-Christ, “ which didn’t set to well with the Roman Empire. Subsequently, after an unsuccessful attempt to delete the Book of Revelation from the canon of scriptures, the empire confiscated the Bible and locked it up from the people and from that time the bible became a “sealed” book and it changed the face of Christendom. This" historic period" became known as the beginning of "the Dark Ages".
The “post-millennialist” believe that the kingdom Jesus spoke of establishing was of a “spiritual nature" and not a “physical” one. This is one of the "primary" reasons why you hear many "evangelical churches of today" talk about and promote “kingdom” building , reasoning that "it is the "church’s responsibility" to usher in the kingdom of God through the preaching the “kingdom” of God is at hand and it’s through the church".
What is your "view" of Prophecy in this issue?
Let me give mine. Personally, "I believe in the “pre-millennial” view of prophecy. I don't believe that Jesus ever placed upon the church (either in the inception of her or the continuing saga of her) the responsibility of establishing the "Kingdom of God" on earth THROUGH "SO-CALLED "KINGDOM BUILDING" , rather, I believe it is our responsibility "to evangelize the world with the Gospel of Jesus Christ", preaching salvation to anyone who will believe the message, as well as prepare ourselves for the rapture and second coming of Jesus Christ, not the coming of the ‘earthly” kingdom Jesus spoke about. The reason is your salvation is the “ticket” into the future kingdom. I believe once the believer is “sealed” by the Holy Ghost” because that believer confessed verbally the Lord Jesus and believed that Jesus was raised from the dead for our redemption, "that believer" already possesses "spiritually" the" Kingdom of God" (in principle, and biblical precepts) in their heart.
In Matthew 6:10 and Luke 11:2, Jesus taught us to pray for the kingdom to come as well as God’s will be done on earth and in heaven. These 2 passages clearly teach that the kingdom is a literal and physical kingdom and God will through Jesus establish it after the 7-year tribulation period.
Second, Jesus in John chapter 14 told us that he was going away to prepare a “place” (physical not spiritual) for us and one day will come back to receive us so we will be where he is for eternity. It doesn’t make sense for Jesus to go away to prepare a place for us if “that place” wasn’t physical and literal. God is a spirit and the creator of all things literally and physically. That includes all that we see and all in the spirit world that we don’t. I believe that Jesus will physically establish his kingdom here on earth during the millennium.
Pre-millenialist fall into 3 “schools of interpretation: “Preterists”, “Historical”, and “Futurists”. I believe in the “futurist” view of the Apocalypse, which takes the position that Revelation chapters 1 through 3 is both a "panoramic and historic view" of the spiritual decline of the Church Age through the seven churches in Asia Minor. From that point, from Revelation chapter 4 to the end of the book is future and has not been fulfilled as of yet. This means the kingdom that Jesus will establish here on earth is literal, physical, and not spiritual.
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